Posted on June 12, 2009 - by Justin Hartman
My reponse to Moneyweb’s article on Social Media
I had the unfortunate pleasure to read an article on Moneyweb titled Social Media: Is it worth it? written by Monique Vanek. The ignorance of the article made me quite mad and I decided to send Monique and the Moneyweb Editor an email highlighting what I felt were the core issues in the article.
Herewith my reponse. Let me know what you think about it.
Dear Monique
Someone sent me the link to an article you wrote on 8 June titled “Social media: Is it worth it?” (http://gatorurl.com/qmi3mg). Let me begin by saying that while I see your view-point regarding big social media sites such as Twitter & Facebook being unable to monetise their websites and become profitable I strongly disagree with most of the remaining article.
Let me disseminate some of your statements and highlight my perspective on the issues you raise.
But somehow I have difficulty accepting Powell’s suggestions: how many microcelebrity’s are there? Does it not come down more to the year you were born in, your culture, your history and being dealt the right hand at the right time, as Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers illustrates?
I too have read Gladwell’s Outliers and agree with everything he wrote in the book. I am a strong believer in the principle’s of the year you were born in, your culture, your history and more importantly the 10,000 hour rule but I struggle to see the relevance in the context of your article. If you look at Evan Williams, Mark Zuckerberg and Biz Stone you’ll see that they all form part of the culture that defines Outliers and I’m pretty sure we’ll find that each one of them have been granted extraordinary opportunities that have helped define their individual, personal success.
How much value can there be in a service that spews out so much information that if you have prolific tweeters and many follows on your profile you see hardly any of their entries?
Value is in the eye of the beholder but from my personal experience this prolific information has helped determine a new way to spread information that is both useful, relevant and real-time. There is no other platform in the world that really highlights how real-time interaction can change perceptions, influence brands and drive revenue than Twitter does. Even Google is now trying to look at how they can plug into the real-time data that is Twitter.
Social media firm Facebook is yet to make a profit. It failed to deliver on Reed’s promise for Cope. Cope’s Facebook group had over 20 000 members before the elections, but only managed to get 7% of the vote.
This statement is laughable and taken completely out of context and I find it quite sad that you’d even try to relate a Facebook groups membership directly to COPE’s inability to obtain more than 7% of the vote. While COPE’s Facebook group may have attracted 20,000 members you failed to contextualise that COPE entered the political sphere with a bang and created a new sense of hope for voters in South Africa who were fed up with the ANC’s inability to deliver on their promises. However, by the time election day came round COPE’s decisions and actions started to highlight their flaws in their initial strategy. While 20,000 members may have supported them on a Facebook group what isn’t clear is just how many lost confidence as and when COPE started to lose support.
By contrast, the DA’s social media strategy was very aggressive and molded off the Obama election campaign and they had a very successful voting day which won them the Western Cape. The DA group on Facebook only has 25,000 members and Reed’s promise may have delivered for them because their message never changed along the way. It just interests me how you chose to highlight how Reed’s promise and Facebook failed to deliver for COPE but at the same time ignored the effect this may (or may not) have had on the DA.
I am yet to meet or hear of a South African who has used social media to make money, influence people or change their career. If you know of any Saffers who have, share your story below…
Your lack of understanding and knowledge in social media is clear to me when you make such a sweeping statement to an audience (Moneyweb readers) that is struggling to come to terms with how social media can benefit them. I run a very successful company that has been built entirely on the ability to use social media to help grow our business. We use no traditional mediums to market and grow our company yet despite this we managed to take a garage startup to part-acquisition when MIH Print Africa, a division of Naspers, bought into our company.
Then let’s look at how Storm Hoek wines (www.stormhoek.co.za) used only social media to market and promote their brand. They targeted bloggers and social media platforms to promote their wines and had massive success along the way. They export wine all over the world.
The list goes on and I can write a book on the amount of people, in South Africa, that have used social media to grow businesses, influence other people and change their career path. I myself used my blog to get a new job which would ultimately set me on a course to start Afrigator.
I would, in all honesty, re-consider your initial approach of this article and look to write a more detailed one that includes some basic research and perhaps trying to explore how South African’s are using the medium successfully. Your readers deserve as much.
33 Comments
I'd love to hear yours!
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June 12, 2009
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My reponse to Moneyweb’s article on Social Media by Justin Hartman http://tinyurl.com/lwpddq
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June 12, 2009
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Nice one Justin !!
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June 12, 2009
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My spelling is shocking, I know, but should it not be “micro celebrities” rather than “microcelebrity’s”? Then again, I’m no editor so I can’t say
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June 12, 2009
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Well said! Monique Vanek’s article seems rushed and is clearly lacking research considering some of her sweeping, superficial statements.
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June 12, 2009
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Great response!
Personally, I have had business generated through LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter.
It seems that articles are not researched enough. It is not hard to find something who knows a bit about the subject.
Well done, and well said.
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June 12, 2009
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Justin
First off, I think your response just indicates the difference in being in an industry and that being your day job(sorry the Internet does not have any hours..) and reading a book and then trying to draw conclusions based on it.
I did not realize the effect of Internet business in South Africa until it became my occupation.I tend to believe that South Africa has more internet businesses that what the general public are aware of..
Also these books in general take America/ North America as its country of origin and not a developing country like South Africa’s and the African continent.
Also do I have it wrong in that the Twitter guys were involved with Blogger which they sold to Google??
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June 12, 2009
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I agree hundred percent with your view on Twitter and other real time streams. These services are some time mistaken for more traditional ways of delivering data, for e.g. Google.
There must be a paradigm shift when using these services. Dave Winer said it best with the following:
“think about Twitter as a rope of information — at the outset you assume you can hold on to the rope. That you can read all the posts, handle all the replies and use Twitter as a communications tool, similar to IM — then at some point, as the number of people you follow and follow you rises — your hands begin to burn. You realize you cant hold the rope you need to just let go and observe the rope”
How many Twitter and Facebook users really go back in history to look at older posts.
That is the thing about Social Media, its about the here and the know, and understanding how to utilise that to your own advantage.
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June 12, 2009
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I’m shocked too and to summarize the comment I left on the article..
I am South African. I run a blog. It makes more money than the average salary. I changed my career from being a developer into a position which dealt with social media. I influence hundreds of web users daily.
Fact: I am not alone.
>> Ignorance and misguidance.
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June 12, 2009
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I agree hundred percent with your view on Twitter and other real time streams. These services are some time mistaken for more traditional ways of delivering data, for e.g. Google.
There must be a paradigm shift when using these services. Dave Winer said it best with the following:
“think about Twitter as a rope of information — at the outset you assume you can hold on to the rope. That you can read all the posts, handle all the replies and use Twitter as a communications tool, similar to IM — then at some point, as the number of people you follow and follow you rises — your hands begin to burn. You realize you cant hold the rope you need to just let go and observe the rope”
How many Twitter and Facebook users really go back in history to look at older posts.
That is the thing about Social Media, its about the here and the know, and understanding how to utilise that to your own advantage.
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June 12, 2009
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Is Social Media worth what to whom?
I think its silly giving a judgement on the value of a social phenomenon based on money figures alone.
The fact is that the way we interact and share is changing. Facebook and Twitter won’t be the be all and end all of the story. Fact is we are at the beginning of a paradigmn shift to a real-time consciousness, a shared one. The need to share conscience with others is wired into the human and is a pervasive drive to every human being on the planet.
We are reading a sort of Genesis Chapter 1. Heck, there’s a of a lot of book left to go …
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June 12, 2009
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socialhelp: My reponse to Moneyweb’s article on Social Media by Justin Hartman http://tinyurl.com/lwpddq
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June 12, 2009
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Her experience sounds relayed and not first-hand. Hopefully she read the recent article about Twitter in Time Magazine.
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June 12, 2009
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I think this article highlights the fact that many internet users in South Africa are still struggling to fully embrace the benefits of social media.
In the meantime, those that are able to harness its full potential are reaping the rewards.
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June 12, 2009
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Great response Justin.
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June 12, 2009
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@Hendrik Blogger was founded by Evan Williams so yes, he’s no stranger to running successful startups
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June 12, 2009
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Dewald Botha – well said and great quote. I think this is often mis-understood and I couldn’t agree with you more!
Chris M – exactly. There you have it. A little bit of fact finding would have prevented this from being published.
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June 12, 2009
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@Conrad I couldn’t agree more with you. We are at the start of an (re)evolutionary phase in communication. Image just for a moment what Google Wave is going to do to the way in which we communicate and interact. It’s exciting, but confusing times…
@Gino – therein lies the problem. By writing an unsubstantiated article like she did, Monique has undermined the influence and power of social media and now every Moneyweb reader who read that probably feels that social media is a load of rubbish. It helps validate an already under-educated audience!
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June 12, 2009
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Hi Justin,
We have also posted a response to their post on From the Couch, but now reflecting on all this… I asked myself a question: Have we over reacted?
I need to ask, who is Monique anyway?
This type of article is inevitable and maybe its a sign that our group of bloggers etc. are doing a pretty bad job of gaining mainstream exposure…?
Just a thought.
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June 12, 2009
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As I was reading this post via Google Reader, I was thinking “very well written” and I see I’m not the only one who thought so.
I read an article online earlier about 55% of Twitters 4.5mil users have never tweeted… it said something along the lines of “barely a peep is heard from most Twitter members..” – that really annoyed me because they are counting “non-existant” people / spammers. Twitter isn’t for the masses, they should stay away.
I blame Oprah for the state of the Twittersphere
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June 13, 2009
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I’m glad she wrote the article, as it reflects common misperceptions and the response will help correct these urban legends. I hope she’ll rewrite a new article, which reflects all this info which everybody has shared.
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June 13, 2009
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David – I don’t think this is about the bloggers over-reacting. The reality is this article has been presented to an audience that is really confused about this new wave of interaction called social media.
I understand journalism (come from a long line of journalists and worked in the industry myself) and it is irresponsible to write something like this when you clearly have no understanding of what it means. Had Monique been a seasoned social media expert and written this then there would have been valid, counter arguments to the statement that it’s not worth it.
However, as she clearly isn’t, the article is based on ilogical statements that are aimed to just defy the validity of something that has clearly worked for many many people.
So no, we haven’t over-reacted at all. I, like “South African”, would hope that Monique and the team at Moneyweb would now counter this article with one that is based more on fact than speculation.
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June 14, 2009
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Dear Justin
Thank you for the time you spent commenting on my article, I really appreciate the feedback. Just thought it is worth mentioning that my article was written in response to a book I read by Juliette Powell called 33 Million People in the Room and was clearly marked as a book review. The author gives the impression that it is easy to make money out of social media and become a micro-celebrity. I disagree with her. Not much thought seems to be given as to how one makes money out of social media. For example, I had a meeting with someone who develops social networks for businesses, when I asked him what the business case would be for Moneyweb developing its own one he said he had no idea. With regards to Blogger it was not making money when Google bought it.
The other issue I had with 33 Million People is that it seemed to suggest that if you use social media, Reed’s theory would magically apply, which did not happen with Cope, and as you rightly pointed out, you need to do more than just have a presence on social media to make a success of your business or party.
I do agree with you and your commentators that the story of how South Africans are making money from social media needs to be told. I would love to do a follow up article on how Afrigator, The Couch, Marc Ashwell, imod etc, are making money. I am certain that it was not as easy as Powell suggested in her book. Can I get in touch with you next week?
Finally, your assertion that I have no understanding of what social media means is incorrect. I created Moneyweb’s Facebook page and run its twitter feed. I also co-founded MoneywebTax, a niche tax website.
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June 14, 2009
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If anyone is interested, Monique posted a reply on From the Couch:
http://www.from-the-couch.com/post.cfm/title/social-media-is-a-tool#Comments
Justin, she is keen to do a follow up article but I am sure know this because she probably emailed you…
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June 14, 2009
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Hi Monique
Thanks for taking the time to respond to this – it is appreciated. Let me state off the bat that I’m ecstatic that you’ll be doing a follow up to this. I welcome any effort to try and look at the benefits to social media and I commend you for this. Obviously I’d be more than willing to answer any questions you have so please get in touch when you get a chance.
I think what you’re trying to get to is the free model that hampers most Web 2.0 startups. The concept, in short, is to get global adoption of a product by offering free services, etc. to consumers with little to no effort in trying to turn a valuable service into a serious business.
I don’t disagree with you n this, but I think it’s important to note a startup’s strategy from the get go. It’s seems that most Web 2.0 startups are just trying to attain global penetration and as a result monetisation is of little importance. This doesn’t mean however that it doesn’t exist nor does it mean that social media sites aren’t making serious money.
Look at Flickr. A great photo sharing site with a solid business model in place. The “freemium” model comes to mind here. Always offer the core free but place greater emphasis on value-adds that encourage users to upgrade for a small price.
That all said I am looking forward to chatting about these issues in greater detail.
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June 15, 2009
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There’s soooo many ways to make bucks from social media. I just popped this on the Moneyweb site:
There are very few people making a full income from selling advertising on their blogs. Some examples of this are: Backpackers.com, 2oceansvibe.com, iMod.co.za and Tertia.org
There are, however, lots of bloggers making a little bit of money from advertising on their blogs (AdGator from Afrigator, and Google’s AdSense are particularly useful in this regard).
That said, there a growing number of people, like myself, who monetize their blogs indirectly by using the blog to support other business. For example, my blog sends through a regular stream of delegates on my courses, and bookings for my talks. This makes blogging a lucrative activity for me, and I consider my blog a valuable asset.
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June 16, 2009
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The *money* I make from Social Media is zero.
The *value* I derive from Social Media is incalculable.
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June 19, 2009
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An even better argument re: Cope is merely this: 7% of the vote is ‘n shitload of people when internet penetration in South Africa is considered.
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June 28, 2009
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“With regards to Blogger it was not making money when Google bought it.”
@Monique I am so disappointed in you. You’ve just shown us again that you are not prepared to conduct thorough research on your topics.
Have you heard of Blogger Pro? The premium feature version of Blogger that brought the company back from the brink of death long before Google got interested?
Here’s a thought: Get yourself a copy of Founders At Work by Jessica Livingston. I’ve written a brief review about it here( http://tr.im/q3nO )
This book interviews tech startup founders (including Evan Williams)and discusses their experiences on the road to success.
More than anything, I think this book will help anyone put the word “Social Media” in context and give them a better understanding of how it came about that I’m responding to you in a comment, recommending a helpful book that I’m have no financial interest in, thus spreading the word about an author who deserves to get paid for publishing an excellent piece of work
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July 5, 2009
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I thought Storm Hoek wines had their label pulled by the UK connection. So do they still export around the world? Last I heard they were struggling for funding, resorting to an “adopt-a-vine” auction. An overused, but not entirely appropriate example, perhaps?
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July 6, 2009
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Dave, yes, that is true. Thing is they had a bad run when their UK distributor went bankrupt, which has nothing to do with their marketing strategy. A very appropriate example still.
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July 11, 2009
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[...] social media,” and interspersed with hits on mobile phone technology, you will find metrics, blog posts, and articles about how and why this vibrant nation is on the verge of becoming a social media [...]
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July 18, 2009
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On Cope and the DA iro Facebook groups.
Clay Shirkey addresses precisely this issue in “Here comes everybody” … I have a crap memory for specifics but the point is that there is a vast difference between sharing (being a member of a group is acknowledging a common interest), cooperating, collaborating and collective action. Even stimulating individual action arising out of a shared belief can be a stretch but political campaigns like Obamas show us that, correctly understood and incubated … social media can be a powerful and relevant tool. The trick, I think, is managing the “tragedy of the commons” effect … the insidious and fatal sense that “I don’t need to take action … my lack of effort will not damage the whole, someone else will do it” phenomenon.
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July 24, 2009
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Sorry to be pedantic Justin, but you probably mean ‘dissect’ and not ‘disseminate’ – the latter means to spread around, to distribute.